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	<title>Comments on: Interesting Development: Mormons are Christians</title>
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	<description>Mormonism and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Trenton</title>
		<link>http://www.section134.com/2007/07/05/interesting-development/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Trenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 02:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Pastor Silva,

You don&#039;t really count yourself among the corrupt professors to whom the Lord referred in 1820, do you? I hope not. Those corrupt professors are the very ones of whom Thomas Jefferson wrote,

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The religion-builders have so distorted and deformed the doctrines of Jesus, so muffled them in mysticisms, fancies and falsehoods, have caricatured them into forms so monstrous and inconceivable, as to shock reasonable thinkers...Happy in the prospect of a restoration of primitive Christianity, I must leave to younger athletes to encounter and lop off the false branches which have been engrafted into it by the mythologists of the middle and modern ages.&quot; (&lt;i&gt;The Writings of Thomas Jefferson&lt;/i&gt;, ed. H. A. Washington, vol. 7, pp. 210, 257.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In all sincerity, I&#039;m certain that doesn&#039;t apply to you. You are, after all, only teaching what you&#039;ve heard, right?

Well, as you wish. I shall not push you into further debate. Godspeed to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pastor Silva,</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t really count yourself among the corrupt professors to whom the Lord referred in 1820, do you? I hope not. Those corrupt professors are the very ones of whom Thomas Jefferson wrote,</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The religion-builders have so distorted and deformed the doctrines of Jesus, so muffled them in mysticisms, fancies and falsehoods, have caricatured them into forms so monstrous and inconceivable, as to shock reasonable thinkers&#8230;Happy in the prospect of a restoration of primitive Christianity, I must leave to younger athletes to encounter and lop off the false branches which have been engrafted into it by the mythologists of the middle and modern ages.&#8221; (<i>The Writings of Thomas Jefferson</i>, ed. H. A. Washington, vol. 7, pp. 210, 257.)</p></blockquote>
<p>In all sincerity, I&#8217;m certain that doesn&#8217;t apply to you. You are, after all, only teaching what you&#8217;ve heard, right?</p>
<p>Well, as you wish. I shall not push you into further debate. Godspeed to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Ken Silva</title>
		<link>http://www.section134.com/2007/07/05/interesting-development/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Ken Silva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 20:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.section134.com/2007/07/05/interesting-development/#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Trenton, 

You say: &quot;We are on the same side, Pastor.&quot; No, I&#039;m afraid we&#039;re not: &quot;18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)â€”and which I should join. 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for &lt;strong&gt;they were all wrong&lt;/strong&gt;; and the Personage who addressed me said that &lt;strong&gt;all their creeds were an abomination&lt;/strong&gt; in his sight; that &lt;strong&gt;those professors were all corrupt&lt;/strong&gt;; that: â€œthey draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.â€ 
http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1


I&#039;m afraid I&#039;m one of those &quot;corrupt professors&quot; of Christian creeds that are &quot;an abomination&quot; according to what &quot;Jesus&quot; said to your founding prophet Joseph Smith. And then you say: &quot; We should not be arguing over this&quot;: I shall certainly respect your wishes. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trenton, </p>
<p>You say: &#8220;We are on the same side, Pastor.&#8221; No, I&#8217;m afraid we&#8217;re not: &#8220;18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)â€”and which I should join. 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for <strong>they were all wrong</strong>; and the Personage who addressed me said that <strong>all their creeds were an abomination</strong> in his sight; that <strong>those professors were all corrupt</strong>; that: â€œthey draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.â€<br />
<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1" rel="nofollow" onclick="urchinTracker('/outgoing/scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1?referer=');">http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m one of those &#8220;corrupt professors&#8221; of Christian creeds that are &#8220;an abomination&#8221; according to what &#8220;Jesus&#8221; said to your founding prophet Joseph Smith. And then you say: &#8221; We should not be arguing over this&#8221;: I shall certainly respect your wishes. <img src='http://www.section134.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Trenton</title>
		<link>http://www.section134.com/2007/07/05/interesting-development/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Trenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for your comment, Pastor. You know, of course, that I must respectfully disagree.

The mention of a &quot;different Jesus&quot; in the New Testament was intended to convey the idea of an impostor, a counterfeit, i.e. someone who was not the Son of God, who did not die on the cross at Golgotha, who was not resurrected, and who was not divine. And there have been many.

The Church, at the time that passage was written, was looking forward to Christ&#039;s return and many were led astray by such &quot;different Jesuses.&quot; Thus, it was written as a warning against following mortal men who pretended to be a new incarnation of Jesus Christ.

We LDS believe only in the Jesus of the New Testament, who was Jehovah before his ministry on Earth, who was and is the Only Begotten Son of the Father, who died on the cross at Golgotha, and was resurrected the third day. Questions of &quot;substance&quot; are meaningless trivialities.

Regardless of whether or not all the rest of Christendom agrees, we are Christians and we will proudly stand and say that in the face of all enemies, mortal or otherwise. I, like most members of the Church, have made a covenant to take upon myself the name of Christ, to always remember Him, and to keep His commandments. That he blesses me with the companionship of His Spirit is irrefutable proof of his acceptance of that covenant.

Faith cannot be exercised in something that is not true. You say we believe in a false Christ. Yet, there is faith in the LDS Church: faith to repentance; faith to healing; to speaking in tongues; to discernment of spirits; to prophecy; to revelation; and to salvation. Such things would not happen if the focus of our faith were artificial.

We have long ago debunked the claim that we are not Christians. It is you (collectively) who have rejected our hand of fellowship freely offered. We are on the same side, Pastor. We should not be arguing over this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Pastor. You know, of course, that I must respectfully disagree.</p>
<p>The mention of a &#8220;different Jesus&#8221; in the New Testament was intended to convey the idea of an impostor, a counterfeit, i.e. someone who was not the Son of God, who did not die on the cross at Golgotha, who was not resurrected, and who was not divine. And there have been many.</p>
<p>The Church, at the time that passage was written, was looking forward to Christ&#8217;s return and many were led astray by such &#8220;different Jesuses.&#8221; Thus, it was written as a warning against following mortal men who pretended to be a new incarnation of Jesus Christ.</p>
<p>We LDS believe only in the Jesus of the New Testament, who was Jehovah before his ministry on Earth, who was and is the Only Begotten Son of the Father, who died on the cross at Golgotha, and was resurrected the third day. Questions of &#8220;substance&#8221; are meaningless trivialities.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether or not all the rest of Christendom agrees, we are Christians and we will proudly stand and say that in the face of all enemies, mortal or otherwise. I, like most members of the Church, have made a covenant to take upon myself the name of Christ, to always remember Him, and to keep His commandments. That he blesses me with the companionship of His Spirit is irrefutable proof of his acceptance of that covenant.</p>
<p>Faith cannot be exercised in something that is not true. You say we believe in a false Christ. Yet, there is faith in the LDS Church: faith to repentance; faith to healing; to speaking in tongues; to discernment of spirits; to prophecy; to revelation; and to salvation. Such things would not happen if the focus of our faith were artificial.</p>
<p>We have long ago debunked the claim that we are not Christians. It is you (collectively) who have rejected our hand of fellowship freely offered. We are on the same side, Pastor. We should not be arguing over this.</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Ken Silva</title>
		<link>http://www.section134.com/2007/07/05/interesting-development/comment-page-1/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Ken Silva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.section134.com/2007/07/05/interesting-development/#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Trenton,

Please know that I appreciate your picking up my article and I mean what I say in a friendly manner. Limitations of the written language ya know. :-)

You say: &quot;If this is legitimate.&quot; The documentation within the article show that beyond question. I planted a mission church in heavily Mormon Rock Springs, WY back in 1994.

This afforded me the opportunity to discuss, learn and debate Mormon doctrine with many Mormon Missionaries (once four at a time in my home) and longtime Mormons. I know very well what Mormon theology is.

The first thing one has to do is to carefully define terms with them. By the way, I&#039;m not an &quot;evangelical.&quot; I love to debate these issues and the central one is the Person of Jesus Christ. If one has the wrong Christ one cannot possibly be Christian. 

So when you say: &quot;They have run out of things to say that havenâ€™t already been debunked&quot;, you are in error because the LDS Church has not debunked the difference concerning the Person of Jesus Christ. Instead the eternal God Himself in human flesh (see-John 8:24) in Mormonism we have the spirit brother born first to &quot;Elohim,&quot; whom they refer to as &quot;Heavenly Father,&quot; who is actually the older brother to Lucifer (the Devil) who was the second born &quot;spirit child.&quot; 

Now, of course the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) are free to believe whatever they wish to. However, as you can see right in my article they cannot call their religoin Christianity because the &quot;Jesus Christ&quot; of Mormonism is absolutely NOT the Jesus Christ of the historic orthodox Christian Church.

I pray this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trenton,</p>
<p>Please know that I appreciate your picking up my article and I mean what I say in a friendly manner. Limitations of the written language ya know. <img src='http://www.section134.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You say: &#8220;If this is legitimate.&#8221; The documentation within the article show that beyond question. I planted a mission church in heavily Mormon Rock Springs, WY back in 1994.</p>
<p>This afforded me the opportunity to discuss, learn and debate Mormon doctrine with many Mormon Missionaries (once four at a time in my home) and longtime Mormons. I know very well what Mormon theology is.</p>
<p>The first thing one has to do is to carefully define terms with them. By the way, I&#8217;m not an &#8220;evangelical.&#8221; I love to debate these issues and the central one is the Person of Jesus Christ. If one has the wrong Christ one cannot possibly be Christian. </p>
<p>So when you say: &#8220;They have run out of things to say that havenâ€™t already been debunked&#8221;, you are in error because the LDS Church has not debunked the difference concerning the Person of Jesus Christ. Instead the eternal God Himself in human flesh (see-John 8:24) in Mormonism we have the spirit brother born first to &#8220;Elohim,&#8221; whom they refer to as &#8220;Heavenly Father,&#8221; who is actually the older brother to Lucifer (the Devil) who was the second born &#8220;spirit child.&#8221; </p>
<p>Now, of course the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) are free to believe whatever they wish to. However, as you can see right in my article they cannot call their religoin Christianity because the &#8220;Jesus Christ&#8221; of Mormonism is absolutely NOT the Jesus Christ of the historic orthodox Christian Church.</p>
<p>I pray this helps.</p>
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